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Fredonia must control spending

April 7, 2013

Two weeks ago, the OBSERVER issued a special report on what villages pay their employees in Chautauqua County. There’s 15 villages in the county....

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(32)

baseball

Apr-07-13 2:50 AM

The observer continues to get it WRONG, Fredonia's population with the College is about 16,000. I have 2 kids in college one at U.B. and one at Alfred, they are counted as living at my home, thats where their drivers license has them, they are not counted in the population where they attend college. Why is the observer being so stupid?

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myopininion

Apr-07-13 4:11 AM

Please baseball, go to the US Census Bureau web site and look it up for yourself. Only by reading it with your own eyes do I suspect you will believe the truth. For the purpose of the once every ten year U.S. census, college students are counted at their college. Thus, as the Observer correctly writes, the college student population IS included in the village's stated population total. YES your UB and Alfred student children were also counted in Buffalo and Alfred, (If that's where they were housed as a student on April 1, 2010.). There are many situations where a Census residence would differ with a driver's license residence. This is just one instance.

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FredoniaFred

Apr-07-13 6:23 AM

You are both wrong. The student is counted where they want to be counted. Some are counted at college, some at home.

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myopininion

Apr-07-13 8:46 AM

Like I said FredoniaFred, go to the U.S. census site to determine where students away at college are to be counted and you will find that college students are required to be counted at the university where they attend. Children in bordering school are to be counted at their parent or guardian's homes. Prisoners in penal institutions were counted in 2010 from the home they came from and in 2000 were counted at their prisons. Interesting? FredoniaFred, I suspect that you are confused with voter registration. In that case, students may register to vote from their home and vote their home town ballot or from the university and vote their college town ballot. Please research this if you doubt the facts.

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Chuck392

Apr-07-13 8:49 AM

You are all wrong. The census counts are so screwed up none of them are right. People missed all over the place. People begging for census forms, yet getting ignored. It's a joke and is politically manipulated.

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myopininion

Apr-07-13 9:18 AM

Chuck392, I agree 100% with your statement. That being said, students at the college are suppose to be counted at the college per the census bureaus own rules. Also, the village's 2010 and updated population count is in line with past census numbers. The students are absolutely part of the reported count.

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baseball

Apr-07-13 9:49 AM

If you dont fill out the census papers mailed to you, they then come around and check, the college was out by then, so tell me how they count the college, when quite a few students live outside of Fredonia and commute! So also by this idiot commentary, Dunkirk is twice the size of Fredonia, yet the School Systems are only a hundred or so students apart in school population. Dunkirk's district extends outside the city, just like Fredonia's also.

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PhilJulian

Apr-07-13 10:37 AM

Dunkirk and Fredonia have similar populations but why does Dunkirk have a police force twice the size of Fredonia? Why do we need eight full time police departments in a low crime rural county of only 133,000 residents? Is there some reason why all law enforcement can't be consolidated into the sheriff's department with satellite locations as needed throughout the county? Our county has more police protection than Fort Knox, we just don't have any of the gold. If you want to know where our tax dollars are going just look at the salaries in law enforcement. Police protection is important and absolutely necessary but there should not be a blank check for any public service.

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Christopher

Apr-07-13 10:45 AM

Unless you believe a Village with a high school with classes of approximately 125 or so has a 15-19 year old population of almost 3,000, the college is CLEARLY included in the census figures. The numbers for 20-24 are almost the same. Every other number by age is WAY smaller. That being said, I might add that Fredonia's contract negotiations were going on for 2 years, and had been settled and submitted to the board for vote weeks before the Observer article on Fredonia's wages. I won't get into the figures on salaries being totally skewed by overtime, or does the Observer expect people to get out of bed to fix water line leaks and plugged sewers or snowplow for free?

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Christopher

Apr-07-13 2:03 PM

"So also by this idiot commentary, Dunkirk is twice the size of Fredonia, yet the School Systems are only a hundred or so students apart in school population." Well, how about the number of children people have? The census listed somewhere around 6000 people between the ages of 15 and 24 in Fredonia. Without the college, ya think!? If 3000 people in Fredonia are between the ages of 15 and 19, why are there only maybe 600 in the entire high school? These numbers are from the 2010 census and had Fredonia at just over 11,000 people. Looking at the count between those 2 younger age brackets, it HAD to include the college.

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Dcronlg

Apr-07-13 2:05 PM

All this census talk aside, it's neither certain nor obvious that the majority of Fredonia residents believe they are spending too much for the services they both want and need.

Year after year, decade after decade, election after election, the village residents have always chosen -- for themselves (and obviously not caring one bit about other villages...) -- exactly how and on what they want their tax dollars spent.

They obviously believe the expenses and the taxes are worth it -- so get over it and mind your own business. If other villages want to operate differently, then it's their residents' business. B-u-t-t out.

Which leads me back to the Clueless church Lady Gaggle OBSERVER board -- sticking their unwelcomed, ignorant noses into some village's duly-decided-by-the-democratic-process business.

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myopininion

Apr-07-13 6:09 PM

Yes, baseball, you at correct except you are unaware of the third step. Effort 1 is to get every citizen to mail in a census form. Effort 2 is to visit every home, residence or homeless location that failed to send in a census form notifying the government of their residence on April 1. Effort 3 is to collect census data not collected from neighbors or from any person in authority with knowledge of the citizens not recorded or collected by a data collector. (I.E. The college administration.).

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myopininion

Apr-07-13 6:23 PM

As for Dcronlg, you are correct that if Fredonia's citizens desire to pay high taxes for a high paid police force, why should the rest of us care? Then again, the Observer would not be doing its job if it failed to tell Fredonia citizens how its taxes are being spent and that the FPD is the best paid force in the county.

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Christopher

Apr-07-13 7:04 PM

No, they are not "the best paid force in the county". This article only referred to VILLAGES, most not even a third of Fredonia's size, college or not, and certainly those college students cause quite a bit of work the other VILLAGES don't have to contend with. Now, compare CITY or STATE police, at least those residing and working in Chautauqua County, and then let's see who makes the most money. It's all tax dollars you know.

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Magicjohnson

Apr-07-13 7:31 PM

Two Weeks ago I asked John to do an article on the Dunkirk School teachers and administrators salaries. Compare his wife's salary with a teacher who teaches at Panama or Clymer school. People in glass houses should not throw stones. If he hates what he pays for taxes in Fredonia, here is a solution MOVE OUT!

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HaveANiceDay

Apr-07-13 10:30 PM

She made $47,526 in 2012 which doesn't seem outrageous to me.

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concerned

Apr-07-13 10:56 PM

Want to get really shocked look up the salary of suny Fredonia police chief a department of about 5 people.

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einstein

Apr-08-13 1:46 AM

apples to oranges or sour grapes Why is the Observer comparing the fire salary of a Fredonia fireman to that of a Forestville fireman? why compare a Fredonia cop to a Cassadaga cop? The observers just trying to stir the bees. Fredonia brings in people from all over the county. Has anyone shopped yet at the Cassadaga Wal-mart? or went bar hopping in downtown Brocton? lets celebrate St Pattys day next year in Silver Creek...nope not going to happen!! Fredonia doesn't only deal with Fredonia residents, it deals with every one in the county that needs entertainment or shopping etc... Why is the newspaper called the Dunkirk Observer if it serves all of the north county? the observer is used frequently by those from other towns, correct? Would it be foolish for someone to say that the Observer charges way more to place an advertisement than the Forestville paper does? Of course it would sound foolish, because Forestville doesn't have a paper, or a Police dept, or a paid Fire dept.

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PhilJulian

Apr-08-13 9:29 AM

I find it interesting that when ever there is a truly revealing local news story there are people that blame The Observer for printing it. Does it make any sense to blame the messenger for the bad news? Salaries of public officials can be a major factor in the decline of our area because they are paid with our tax dollars. Yes, we have a right to know if salaries are out of line and where would you get this information if it were not for The Observer? When you consider the shrinking size of the local community we are lucky to have a daily newspsper and we can only hope that they continue bringing us the facts that are so important to the future of our area.

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einstein

Apr-08-13 10:28 AM

philjuilian- Yes facts are facts. I was just saying that the writer of that artice is comparing apples to oranges. Fredonia should be considered a small city, then it would have the lowest saleries if you compared it to Dunkirk , Jamestown or State police. Fredonia is way bigger than the places the observer compares it to. not just population but business etc... and leave that poor lawyer fella alone. thats apples/oranges too. The guy works for 5 or 6 different towns and they tallied his wages and say hes overpaid? i bet he works more than 40/week,good for him, hardworker. the comparisons made would be like me saying that the paperboy that delivers 5 routes makes way more than the boy with 1 route. That little go getter with 5 routes should take a pay cut. UM NO, thats foolish, hes doing 5 times the work.

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Krasnitz

Apr-08-13 1:36 PM

Myopinion gets it wrong again. Seethroughny, the source for the Observer's article notes that Dunkirk Police chief makes over $98k and another public safety employee making $101K+.The top 23 PD/FD members make between $80K and $101K. Compare that to the numbers cited by the Observer for Fredonia. If the two police departments were ever consolidated as some (Phil et al) recommend Fredonia taxpayers would take a whopping hit to make up the differences. Look it up.

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PhilJulian

Apr-08-13 4:51 PM

einstein - population has nothing to do with designation of a village or city. That designation is determined by the original incorporation.

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Magicjohnson

Apr-08-13 6:50 PM

Phil - I understand you hate public employees and paying local property taxes. I kinda agree with you to a point, unfortunaltely we need many of these services we pay for. What I dont ever see you complain about is the amount of waste in "taxpayer" monies and wages we pay out everyday in the state and federal level. You must think federal employees and state employees must be exempt from your constant complaining. On any given day, I would gladly my local property taxes (city/town/county) over what I get stripped from my paycheck weekly for federal and state taxes. You complain a Fredonia Police Officer makes 68k year, but 1 mile down the road a NY trooper makes 140k a year, doing nothing diefferent but driving a different color car. A Federal agent making 200k annually, Im sure he is the one that will knock at your door if your house is burglaried. right! I think you need to look at the bigger picture. Apples to Oranges!

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einstein

Apr-09-13 12:22 AM

Philjulian, Yes, your right. Thats why im saying that the article has fredonia placed in the same bucket as the small one horse towns. If you want to compare the salaries of the services you should consider them as a small city not a village.

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PhilJulian

Apr-09-13 9:32 AM

Majicjohnson - you are right that we need the services. It's when the services cost more than we can afford that we run into trouble. At the federal level government ran up a debt in excess of $16 trillion. For every dollar spent they have to borrow forty two cents, mainly from China. At the state level excessive spending has resulted in the demise of upstate New York where business can no longer compete, youth are leaving and many people migrating to greener pastures. At the local level excessived taxation has resulted in the loss if industry while the county and it's two cities contiunue to lose population. You may be right that a state trooper makes $140 thousand but that doesn'r mean that local law enforcement is underpaid. MAYBE THE TROOPER IS OVERPAID AND MAYBE HIS SALARY IS CONTRIBUTING TO THE DEMISE OF THE STATE! In the final analysis we should not be spending more than we can afford and that applies to federal government, state, local and your personal finances.

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