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Funds, staff keep shrinking

May 19, 2013

For some, it was an unsettling tone....

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(34)

monybagz

May-26-13 10:41 AM

SCHOOL TEACHERS! PART TIME WORK FOR FULL TIME WAGES & BENEFITS!!!!!!!!!!!

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DKexpat

May-22-13 11:19 PM

Actually, Robert, every - every - Asian I work with (approx. 25, a number of whom report to me) has a graduate or doctorate degree in engineering or computer science from an American university.

Our problem is a lack of STEM majors...

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robert

May-22-13 11:30 AM

I love how you guys hold up India and China as shining examples. By the way, higher education is free in those countries, paid for with the workers taxes.....you still envy them you penny pinchers?

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commentor

May-21-13 11:30 AM

There are many wonderful teachers who work very hard. There are also, probably more, teachers that are slackers. They use the same lesson plan year after year and do minimum. Given today's youth and lack of parental quality I wouldn't want to be a teacher. However, union demands are out of control. Schools need an overhaul from top to bottom. As for sports and music taking the forefront also a big problem. As for India and China gaining on us......look around you when is the last time you saw a white american doctor. They are few in number. Americans need to put away the egos and greed.

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StanleyCup

May-21-13 10:17 AM

I wonder how much we spend on corrections each year? At one point we had 74 facilities in the state, but I know some have been closed. We complain about state taxes, taxes on gasoline etc..., but no one is talking about the superintendants, 3-4 deputy superintendants, 3 levels of C.O.'s at each facility, all the food, clothing, counseling, education, recreation etc for the inmates and what this is costing us. There are MANY people in corrections making $70-$100,000+, state benefits and retiremant, without any college degree. Lets put more money into education and the disabled and less into the losers behind bars.

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DKexpat

May-21-13 8:31 AM

TT & Music – My wife is a teacher. I asked if she’d be willing to give up tenure in exchange for more money, and she replied, “What, are you crazy?”

To anyone in a “protected bubble” who (a) fears annual performance evaluations, (b) worries about cronyism, and (c) thinks administrators will hire their friends, who’s the embittered whiner? (Welcome to the real world.)

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DarkStar

May-21-13 7:41 AM

Musicadvocate,

Using Dunkirk as an example, since their numbers were recently published, of their $44 million dollar budget over 86% goes to salaries and benifits.

So I don't know how anyone can say that pay and benifits aren't the cause for insanely high school spending.

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Truthteller

May-21-13 6:41 AM

DKEX--Teachers in NY ARE being "graded themselves." It's called APPR. Do away with tenure? Every change of administration will bring a change of staff because friends and family members WILL boot out existing teachers. Yet again, I ask all you embittered whiners--why aren't you teachers? Anyone would want a job where you "only work 7 hours a day, 3 or four hours really, 180 days a year" and make $90,000.

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Musicadvocate

May-21-13 6:01 AM

Unless you are an educator and understand the blood, sweat, and tears that go into that profession, you can't possibly grasp where I am coming from. I am by no means "burnt out" and as a life long resident of NY, I have every right to complain about one of the highest taxed and poorly ran states in the nation. There is more wrong with education in country than what teacher salaries are but like I said unless you work in the profession you can only go by what you "think" its all about. I am simply defending teachers seeing how we have become the scapegoats for everything wrong in education today.

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DKexpat

May-20-13 10:28 PM

I have a choice not to buy a Ford or Chevy if I think it's been built by lackadaisical workers who, basically, have jobs for life plus a pension.

I do not have that choice for schools unless I want to pay for private tuition on top of my school taxes.

Would teachers here be in favor doing away with tenure in exchange for more money? Of being "graded themselves" just like most salaried employees in the private sector? Or, given longevity these days, exchange their pensions for more money when accuaries say a NYS teacher pension is the equivalent of a $1.2 million annuity?

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CassadagaHiker

May-20-13 9:47 PM

You're correct Music....I do not have my Masters as I only needed a four year for my career. However, quite a few of my friends work in careers where they had to obtain their Masters and they certainly don't pull in what you do Joe. Perhaps move to a different State besides this "god forsaken one" you seem to dislike. Perhaps you have reached the burnout stage in your career (sounds like it). Maybe you should head out to pasture and let someone in who WANTS the job? People are not "Entitled" to a salary because they have put in the time on the job like you said...pure and simple enough for you? Maybe retire and volunteer for the church choir director? Not going to get that $100,000 salary but not everything is about money is it? ;)

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Truthteller

May-20-13 8:07 PM

Do you know anything about opportunity cost? If you did, you'd be more worried about NOT paying teachers a decent salary for the work they do and the education required. You'd be worried because nobody in their right mind would teach for what you would pay. And don't even say "merit pay" when one teacher has students who DON'T have to pass a standardized test and another has students who do. And stop this ridiculous 5 hours a day...etc., baloney. You are clueless. Utterly without awareness. And just plain mean and nasty.

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Truthteller

May-20-13 8:04 PM

Dark Star, it's not that simple. There are so many corporations under one umbrella, you can't really tell who owns what product or company. You couldn't boycott if you wanted to. You may think you're boycotting Nestle only to find out they're owned by someone you're NOT boycotting (just an example). Bottom line is, some of you will just hate teachers no matter what, blissful in your ignorance of what you're even ASKING of teachers, because it's "tax money" and "I have no choice." Why don't you direct your anger toward the real greedy people--CEO's whose gap between them and workers grows bigger, bigger, bigger, bigger...Blame GE and their ilk for getting a free, tax-less ride.

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Musicadvocate

May-20-13 5:08 PM

CassadagaHiker - Just an FYI, teacher's in NYS are REQUIRED by law to earned a Master's Degree just to step foot in a classroom. Now I am assuming because you fail to see the fact that getting said degree puts many teachers into debt, that you yourself don't have a Master's Degree or can fully understand how one would pay back loans in order to teach in this god forsaken state. So I'll make this plain for you....by your logic then, doctors who earn doctoral degree shouldn't get paid their ridiculous salaries either. Neither should our elected leaders then. I guess getting a good college education in order to get a good paying job, isn't the American Dream.....

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DKexpat

May-20-13 4:18 PM

By 2020 India will be graduating four times as many college graduates as the United States - - and India already graduates as many computer science/engineering students per year as the entire US college graduating class for ALL majors. By 2030, China will have 200 million college graduates — more than the entire U.S. workforce.

Visa restrictions are coming down – at the behest and lobbying of large corporations (like mine, in fact) – so that more foreign graduates can work or stay in the US after grad school. Earlier today, I walked over to our IT area to talk to some folks about a data storage and streaming problem - - and I’d wager 80% of them – all with at least one MS – weren’t born here.

As much as I enjoy music, that’s what we need to prepare our kids to compete against when they enter the workforce. How about more STEM courses instead?

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DKexpat

May-20-13 1:57 PM

There's a recent article in Business Week about the New Haven (CT) school district, where the union, superintendent and mayor “got on the same page” in 2011 and agreed teacher evaluations would replace tenure and that the union would not contest firings of teachers deemed substandard.

Those who receive superior evaluations are rewarded with things like lighter class loads; those who are rated poorly received career coaching, and if no improvement, are fired.

The district’s concession was that principals be judged by similar standards. (I think over 60 teachers and 7 principals have so far been shown the door.)

The graduation rate and test scores are both up over the past couple of years. In December, the union president ran unopposed and was reelected by the teachers union.

Dunkirk in a national publication - - The same issue has an article asking where all the jobs went. It begins with “Joey Griffiths grew up in the western New York town of Dunkirk and left home at 17."

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CassadagaHiker

May-20-13 10:30 AM

Did you SERIOUSLY just say you are "Entitled" to that salary? Now who's out of touch? I think we have a winner here folks! Entitlement mentality at it's finest. This is a prime example of the problem with these schools and their budgets. The Teachers and their Unions actually feel they are "Entitled" to large salaries simply because they have put in the time. Your seriously trying to defend that? LOL

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Musicadvocate

May-20-13 10:13 AM

DarkStar, Your statement that its a lot of money to be paying a teacher for only working 185 7 hours days with only 2-3 hours of class time in each day shows me how out of touch you are with how a music teacher works. Being a music educator myself, I wish I only worked 185 days for 7 hours like all the "core" subject areas, but music teachers work year round and pull 12 - 17 hour days doing marching band, jazz ensemble, All counties, weekend/night rehearsals etc. All to benefit YOUR child. Music teachers come in early to setup and stay late. Most of us don't even get a moment to sit down for lunch on a daily basis. Working 9 class periods over the span of 8 class period. We work outside the contract and pay for equipment, music etc. out of our own pockets again to benefit YOUR kids. And just to clarify, all 3 music teachers at CVCS have 30 years or more of experience entitling them to their salaries. This is a small price to pay for dealing with the students/parents of today

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DarkStar

May-20-13 10:10 AM

DKexpat,

The reason is actually the reason I opposed public workers being able to unionize and that is because taxpayers have no choice in the matter.

I was looking over the Fredonia Schools proposed budget yesterday, and if you voters vote down on the budget of just under $29 million the board can put a contingency budget in place that is only about $340,000 less, which is a bad joke, and taxpayers will have to pay under force of law.

If you don't like the way Ford operates you can choose not to buy thier products and support the company, but when it's government you have no choice, and that is the difference that should disallow government workers unions.

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DKexpat

May-20-13 10:01 AM

The thing I don’t understand about NYS and – especially – rural school districts with both declining enrollment AND a shrinking tax base is why anyone (union or not) receives automatic +/- 3% annual raises, with corresponding increases in benefits accruing additional costs to the districts.

Yes, taxpayers must pay for schools and services, but instead of living within their means, too many communities come back to the taxpayers time and time again instead of prudently managing costs.

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DarkStar

May-20-13 8:40 AM

Musicadvocate,

Wow, your a nasty piece of work aren't you?

Should sports be looked at? Sure they should, but that doesn't negate the fact that the 3 teachers in question have an avergage salary of just under $92,000 a year, and of course that doesn't include the roughly $37,000 in benifits for each of them.

Oh and all this for 185 7 hour work days a year, during which they might have as many as 3 or 4 classes a day for a total classroom time of 2-3 hours a day.

Teaching music to kids is a good idea, but unfortunately it appears the teachers and their union are trying to make these programs to expensive to continue.

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Musicadvocate

May-20-13 8:22 AM

Mr. Bear, you are the one who obviously has no clue about how schools work or what is involved with funding, staffing (state mandated/non mandated), and other factors that contribute to a tax hike in a school....So until you do your homework and can intelligently defend your position, do us all a favor and shut the*****up...

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MrBear

May-19-13 10:41 PM

Don't try to shift the focus "MUSICadvocate". Sports or music.....enough $$$ is enough. $386,000 is wayyyy overboard. If I read this correct they will still have 2 with the position cut. Two Teachers making a ton more money than I could ever hope to make. And I should worry and be concerned about this? Are you slow? No thank you genius. If I lived up that way I would rather keep the small amount of tax money for my family instead of giving those teachers more. You people just shut down a school and laid a bunch of people off. People who lost their jobs and you want to spend more for "music"? Are you serious? WOW get a clue "advocate". LOL.

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MrBear

May-19-13 10:34 PM

Dcronlg always has input.....especially when it doesn't directly concern her. More blah blah blah. Atypical ideology from a wannabe tea partier. Most obsequious poster on this site lolol.

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Musicadvocate

May-19-13 10:32 PM

First of all, let's start by saying that this is the most uninformed "opinion" these morons at the Observer has ever written. Let's talk about what the real problem is in school districts, the SPORTS programs. Its funny how nobody ever talks about how much money is ****** away by district providing the students these NON MANDATED activities. The Observer should do it due diligence and find out exactly how much money schools spend on their sports and I can say, as an educator of over 12 years, that it is MUCH more than the salary of 3 teachers. Music is a STATE MANDATED subject, whether the people posting on this blog like it or not. If you did your research, as a "credible" news source, you would have easily found that. NO WHERE does the state mandate sports in schools. Sports are EXTRA CURRICULAR and since most schools spend millions on coaches, equipment, transportation, etc. it should be the first thing on the chopping block, not hard working educators.

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