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Resolution to cancel sale of foreclosure lot in city withdrawn

July 22, 2013

MAYVILLE — A resolution to cancel the sale of a tax foreclosure lot in Dunkirk has been withdraw....

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(29)

Taxpayer42

Jul-23-13 1:50 PM

Concerned, I agree with you. If it was in the newspaper & everyone knows it, being a local resident the buyer should have known. Moreso, I would think, than people sitting behind a computer in Mayville looking at parcel numbers. Shofuh ...you have certainly made quite a leap from what I actually wrote to what the voices in your head were telling you. Nothing I wrote had anything to do with clean up. My point was quite simple. There is an auction, there are rules. The rules are printed, the rules are read aloud. The buyer is not a novice. He took a gamble. You want county staff to do environmental assessments now on every parcel prior to it being sold at auction? What exactly should they be looking for & how far into the parcel do they research? I'm sure there's plenty of staff to do that in between their regular jobs and there would be absolutely no aditional cost because labor is free ...maybe they can just get the staff at the county home to do it when that closes.

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concerned

Jul-22-13 7:47 PM

If this sale is not canceled it will most likely lead to a lawsuit from the new owner and possibly the EPA and we all know who will pick up the tab for that!

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concerned

Jul-22-13 7:37 PM

Taxpayer 42 I agree with you to an extent if the property was residential but this is a known brownfield site that the cleanup bid has just been awarded. As to how would the county know well maybe they could have read the newspaper as there have been past articles listing sites in this area. As to the buyer my guess is he expected to flip the site by selling it to Special Metals for a big profit. The solution the county take the property back but charge the back out buyer a large penalty. After the cleanup sell the site bet you will get more buyers and money then.

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Donnar

Jul-22-13 2:57 PM

HVAN,

If the people on the pier bother you, don't go there. If the rats on the platform scare you, don't go there. If you dislike this newspaper as much as you say, don't read it. See? Now isn't that simple? Azzhat.

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CadeFoster

Jul-22-13 1:17 PM

FredoniaFred --- really ! why dont you take every one in your family swimming in that non toxic pond ! Then after you get covered in PCB's call the Buffalo DEC and ask them about the Superfund Site known as Williobrook Pond. Enjoy the swim !

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HVANCDY

Jul-22-13 1:03 PM

Isn't all of Dumbkirk a toxic mess - Looks and smells like it !

Note : See the Rat population at NRG and Fishing Platform and the Scum that hang around the City Pier.

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FredoniaFred

Jul-22-13 1:03 PM

This property is not a toxic waste dump. It has environmental problems similar to a gas station with leaking tanks.

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shofuh

Jul-22-13 12:49 PM

So Taxpayer42, you must be a genius, haha.

You are against looking into these properties whatsoever (which could easily be done with County staff) due to cost concerns, but you are okay with the possibility that the county and its taxpayers could be on the hook for millions of dollars in cleanup costs? Maybe not on this particular project if superfund cleans it, but this certainly shows the possibilities.

Wow.

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shofuh

Jul-22-13 12:41 PM

Your wish was that the county takes parcels for tax reasons even if there are major libability issues.

Superfund also only cleans it up to a certain extant. They ill not clean it up enough for it to be used again.

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DKexpat

Jul-22-13 12:22 PM

NYS disclosure laws are a mess, but if a defective condition is open to observation, i.e., is discoverable, AND the purchaser has an opportunity to examine premises AND there is no evidence of fraud, courts are less willing to impose liability for negligent misrepresentations.

If the buyer was “locked out” and unable to walk the property, that’s a problem for the county regardless of “as is” because sellers have a duty not to represent falsely a condition that is known only to them and that cannot be expected to be diagnosed by the exercise of reasonable diligence by the purchaser.

Unless the County says it doesn’t know the location of toxic waste sites? (Pretty scary.)

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Taxpayer42

Jul-22-13 12:18 PM

I have no feeling for the buyer personally other than, this isn't his first time around. He said he's bought plenty at the auction so he should know the rules. How are they informed by the DEC and EPA? Does the DEC and EPA look through the delinquent tax rolls and notify the county when one with a problem shows up? I don't think so. If that's the case, then I withdraw my complaint. But I believe the county has to research each parcel in order to find out if there are issues ...which is exactly what I don't want to pay for. And my second objection is, what are the limits/scope - do they check for lead, asbestos ...etc ...? Shofuh - not sure you understood what I was saying because "my wish" has nothing to do with the county owning the property and being responsible for cleanup. Not sure where you got that out of what I wrote.

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CadeFoster

Jul-22-13 12:18 PM

The county will not be responsible for the clean up. It will remain in Realco's name. The Superfund will pay the clean up bill with a lien on the property. A lien of up to 5 miliion dollars.

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commentor

Jul-22-13 12:15 PM

Selling as is and selling a toxic waste dump is another thing. This property should be Dunkirk's responsibility. It should have never gone to the County. As for them not knowing they should surely have been suspicious. Another possibility is give it back to the owner and make him responsible.

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shofuh

Jul-22-13 11:53 AM

Well Taxpayer42, you will get your wish because now the county is responsible for it, and may be responsible for the cleanup of the property.

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CadeFoster

Jul-22-13 11:52 AM

How do they Know? because they are informed by the EPA and DEC.

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CadeFoster

Jul-22-13 11:51 AM

Why was did the county have it on the tax roll to begin with ? the lucas ave. plant is not on the tax roll , why. Because it is a PCB waste site and superfund site. This property was over looked and reguardless of your feeling for John, the county and goverment have a duty to protect its citizens from toxic waste like this.

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Taxpayer42

Jul-22-13 11:47 AM

Shofuh - that simple? any property? So, no one should pay their property taxes then because the county wouldn't foreclose. Here is the problem - How does the county know if there's a problem with the property until they do an assessment? So, we taxpayers either pay for assessments on all properties with delinquent taxes owing prior to selling at auction, or, with your pretty simple plan, the county simply doesn't take any property. The problem with this whole issue is no foresight. It's simple to say the county shouldn't sell this parcel because we now know something. The bigger broader picture is, where does it end? What do we want our tax dollars to pay for? Thre could be 500 parcels with no issues and 1 with an issue but no one would know that unless they did an assessment on all 500 parcels.

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shofuh

Jul-22-13 11:36 AM

Taxpayer42, its pretty simple, the county doesn't take the property in the first place. That way they don't own any of the liability.

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Taxpayer42

Jul-22-13 11:24 AM

And where does it end? How much money should we invest on a property with $1000 owed in back taxes prior to selling it? If everyone knows it was a toxic waste dump, why didn't the buyer? What else do we check for? Asbestos? Lead paint? Wetlands? Termites? There are thousands of parcels foreclosed upon. You want to pay for those assessments on every single parcel prior to auction because someone didn't do their homework? I'm sorry - I don't. I think the disclaimer is a red flag and anyone who chooses to roll the dice does so at their own risk. It's no different than buying other foreclosed properties - sometimes you get a deal and other times you get a lemon. That's the nature of that kind of investment.

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Taxpayer42

Jul-22-13 11:18 AM

"As-is" is pretty self explanatory. Again, mortgage foreclosures sell them this way every day. If you are involved in the auction process, you know the rules and the risks. If buyers can't read or comprehend the disclosure, maybe they shouldn't buy at the auction.

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DarkStar

Jul-22-13 11:07 AM

Taxpayer42,

If full disclosure laws are to unwieldy for the government to comply with, why are they so insistant that the individual comply with them?

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DarkStar

Jul-22-13 11:04 AM

Taxpayer42,

I would be willing to bet that even in a Mortgage foreclosure the bank would be required to notifiy the buyer that they were selling them a toxic waste dump.

We aren't talking about a building that isn't structurally sound or needs work, we are talking about a Superfund site, which one would think the city and county were well aware of.

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Taxpayer42

Jul-22-13 10:05 AM

Taxpayers complain about high taxes ...want spending cut ...yet you want the county to spend thousands and thousands of dollars on assessments prior to an auction? This guy, by his own admission, is not a newbie to the process. The rules are the rules for a reason and they are very clear. Mortgage foreclosures are also sold "as is" - so it's not just the government. Try to get your money back from a mortgage foreclosure sale because "you didn't know" and see how accomodating they are. So now when the real property tax office budget increases, don't complain. We shouldn't be paying to "protect people from themselves." What happened to personal responsibility? Oh, yeah, that went out the window with the institution of the other government programs we pay for.

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CadeFoster

Jul-22-13 9:43 AM

Realco owns said land, which is currently still on the tax roll, yet the lucas ave plant is taxed at 0.00 dollars. Current titled owner of property will get the clean up bill. 2.5 to 5 million dollars to clean up site according to DEC website. This is a PCB Superfund site.

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225522

Jul-22-13 9:36 AM

Another nick in the Sword of Damocies support string for Dunkirk: Tax foreclosures and clean up sites from the former industrial base. The right thing to do was to give the money back....however the property is still a toxic waste site.

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