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High payroll is board burden

September 8, 2013

Decisions by the Cassadaga Valley Board of Education before the start of this school year are why area residents often lose trust in leaders....

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(55)

DKexpat

Sep-13-13 9:25 PM

Of course, anyone in love with tenure and a job "for life" would turn up his nose at -gasp- an annual performance review.

Worse, you could be fired for malfeasance or a costly error or something that placed the company at great risk -- you could have tenure and not need to worry about things like that...

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hooray99

Sep-13-13 7:50 PM

Truthteller: you seem to conveniently forget that "high profile corporations" like GE take their gains and losses on the backs of their stockholder. In a school district those losses are on the backs of the TAXPAYERS!!!!!

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Truthteller

Sep-13-13 6:13 PM

You're just silly at this point.

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DarkStar

Sep-13-13 4:38 PM

DKexpat,

Very true, I think virtually every company and even government agency would benifit from using that method, of course many agencies might need to go 10-20-70 where they fire the 70% each year.

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DKexpat

Sep-13-13 9:04 AM

Truthseeker, you probably wouldn't like the GE employee evaluation system Jack Welch put into place: 20-70-10 - - - they fire the bottom 10% every year.

Too bad we can't apply that to other professions...

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DarkStar

Sep-13-13 8:52 AM

"... sacredness of teaching..."

Wow, so now teachers are Gods that we should worship! LOL!

You've officially joined the ranks of those with Steiner level of insanity. Congrats!

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Truthteller

Sep-13-13 6:31 AM

You all need to get a grip and get over your bitterness. If you can't see the sacredness of teaching, you're a fool beyond hope.

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Truthteller

Sep-13-13 6:30 AM

Hooray, the only screwing is by high-profile corporations like GE that pay NO taxes. Teachers pay handsomely too.

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hooray99

Sep-12-13 9:32 PM

Only "sacred job" I know is a priest, pastor, minister. Certainly not teacher. Tell me why when the stock market tanks and I take a hit on my 401K (that I alone contribute to-no match) and suffer a huge loss, the taxpayers have to come up with the money to bring the teachers retirement fund back up to a certain level. That is what I call guaranteed retirement!!! Wow, wish I had that. Oh and remember, when the NYS teachers take that retirement money, they pay NO NYS income tax on it!!! So the taxpayer gets double screwed!!

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DKexpat

Sep-11-13 9:52 PM

Only 6.6% of private industry is unionized. Not many more have pensions, which, after all, are the equivalent of a $1million annuity. Put basically a job for life with that, and that is not too shabby a deal.

One must consider the whole compensation package, not just gripe about base pay.

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DKexpat

Sep-11-13 9:47 PM

My county-wide district hires 350-600 teachers every year. Every year. Part of that is due to opening 2-3 new schools and adding 2,500-3,000 new students. Again, every year.

Part of it is due to brand-new teachers needing some experience before they apply elsewhere - someplace where the might afford a home.

As I wrote earlier, I don't have a problem with the pay, but do with guaranteed raises regardless if you're the biggest screw-up in the world or just sitting there collecting dust and using your lesson plan from 30 years ago.

Nepotism? Favoritism? Aw gee, poor baby, welcome to the real world where at least the "skaters" would be winnowed out. And at my company at least, I don't see many people "responsible for others" without a master's. Guess we haven't yet talked about the, what is it, 8- or 9-month work schedule, huh? And broke school districts granting automatic 3% raises - that is a I've the rate of inflation - on the backs of strapped taxpayers is just

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Truthteller

Sep-11-13 7:56 PM

Hooray, employment at will (now THAT'S where I have experience) is not necessarily about "doing a good job and keeping it." Nepotism, favoritism, firing-at-will-for-no-good-reason-except-that-I-just-don't-like-you are all horrors I've seen. We ask teachers to do a sacred job. We put so much in their hands. Like police officers. If protection from those horrors is one of their few perks, then God bless 'em, I say. I do not think corporate greedy so-and-sos are all you people worship them to be. They are the true robber barons. Leave the teachers alone.

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Truthteller

Sep-11-13 7:50 PM

Why do you insist I'm a teacher? I'm not.

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Truthteller

Sep-11-13 7:49 PM

I'm more of a Captain Crunch person. Tenure is a protection against arbitrary nepotism. Maybe all careers should have similar protection. Just watch the news--you'll see tenured teachers getting fired all the time. And 3%? Stops when you reach the top. It's only fair for a career that asks a master's degree and liability for the learning and safety of minors and yet starts people at $35-40,000. That 3% (not all are that high, and there are freezes and horizontal movement along the way) doesn't keep up with inflation. And it takes an entire career to pay off today's inevitable student loans. You're really trying to create a country without teachers.

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hooray99

Sep-11-13 7:17 PM

We need a school board who will say we do not have the money to keep increasing salaries, benefits and retirement at the price of the students losing academic programming and the taxpayer just keep paying more and more. Notice academics-no or minimal cuts to athletics. But board members do not want all the calls from Johnny and Susi's mom and dad saying they have ruined their chances to play in the NFL or the Olympics. REALLY! School is there to get an education and if you work hard an academic scholarship but without an academic program CVCS student will not be getting any of that. Sad...

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hooray99

Sep-11-13 7:08 PM

This is not about a blanket statement of paying teachers less. My daughter is a teacher. This is about cvcs having fantastic teachers who earn every penny they get and a lot of dead wood. So many teachers are just putting in their time and counting down the days until they get to retirement. I do not agree with tenure. In any profession if you do a good job, you have a job until your next paycheck. You work at will; yours and your employers. But not with teachers. What makes them so special? And because of tenure how do you terminate teachers who molest children/students? It is very difficult and costly to the district, unless the teacher just decides to move on to the next post. Or you could take them out of a classroom and move them down the hall to remedial with even less supervison????

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DKexpat

Sep-11-13 6:37 PM

“So by all means, let's cut every teacher's income in half because--whine, whine--"I don't make that much and I work hard..."

Nope, never said that. Geeez, I hope you didn’t carry all that bitterness with you into the classroom...

Ya know, teachers (and many other unionites) should learn a foreign language – “Annual Performance Review.” School districts need to appreciate what people with non-guaranteed jobs go through.

If wages stagnate, if the community’s seeing no or just a minimal raises, if job losses increase, if taxpayers are already squeezed because their county, village or city taxes are higher at a time districts are shrinking due to declining enrollment...is that 3% guaranteed raise/year really justified or just a tad greedy?

That’s not cutting pay – it’s called being fair to taxpayers.

P.S. If it’s “only” 2.5%, I apologize in advance. :-)

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DKexpat

Sep-11-13 5:12 PM

Geeez, Truthseeker, did somebody squat in your Fruit Loops?

“your plan for income redistribution.” Huh? Good pay, “but not for teachers.” No, what I said is “I have less of an issue with wages...than I do with tenure.”

What I really take issue with is guaranteed 3% raises (plus increased pension costs) at the same time taxpayers are losing their jobs or taking pay cuts or making do with less. Why I take issue with is spineless school boards kowtowing to unions at the same time their districts and tax base are shrinking. What I take issue with is lazy people “riding it out” via job protectionism (and it’s not just teachers).

“for many reasons that none of you reveal a remote understanding of.” Well, I held HS certification and sub’d while in graduate school; my sister is a teacher, my sister-in-law is a teacher, my other sister-in-law is a guidance counselor and, wait for it, my wife was a teacher before starting her own business.

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Truthteller

Sep-11-13 4:18 PM

So by all means, let's cut every teacher's income in half because--whine, whine--"I don't make that much and I work hard..." That thinking is beyond unreasonable. The right for 30 years has brainwashed you thoroughly--blame unions, blame people paid by taxes, but don't blame executives who take jobs from Americans and give them to other countries, who overcharge for gas and everything else, who*****off people paid at poverty-level minimum wage, who close businesses while giving themselves big bonuses and packages. By all means, keep electing the brainwashers.

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Truthteller

Sep-11-13 4:15 PM

None of you have said anything that justifies paying teachers less. First of all, when you start yapping about $100,000 plus salaries, you are talking about a very, very small number of teachers. Most, the overwhelming, number, will top out at around $80,000--IF they work 30 years. (There are many who never even get to the top.) Furthermore, when you can understand that executives and management and the lobbyists who protect and promote their interests have a greedy share of other people's hard-earned money, we'll talk about your plan for income redistribution (which in your embittered minds means "Take money away from these 'greedy' teachers.") Noone disputes that many occupations involve over and above. That's not the issue. The issue is paying a reasonable wage for people with a difficult job for many reasons that none of you reveal a remote understanding of. In America, hard work equals good income, right? But not for teachers, you say.

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DKexpat

Sep-11-13 11:58 AM

hooray99 is exactly right.

My first "salary job" was working 7-to-5 Mon-Fri and 7-to-12 Saturdays. And I distinctly recall working 12 hours on Thanksgiving Day one year. All for $18k/year.

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hooray99

Sep-11-13 12:13 AM

Truthteller: There are many jobs/professions where you put in more than an 8 hour day to do a good job. Teachers do not have a lock on this. The good ones will do what it takes to do a great job, the bad ones are out of the parking lot before the buses pull away. My job requires hours of paperwork after my day is done and early in the morning before I go to work from 7-5:00. Those who are passionate about what they do and have a work ethic to do their best, do what it takes to get the job done with a smile.

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Chuck04

Sep-10-13 7:10 PM

None of you mentioned that there are no more field trips. If one does get approved, the clubs fund raising money must pay for the advisors substitute and pay the bus driver and milage Just another example of how cvcs is slowly cutting the education life support from it's students. The teachers are willing to go the extra mile for their students, they just get tired of swimming up stream. If the board and supt. don't really care, how can they motivate the staff to care. if this were industry, cvcs has eliminated all R&D. No new programs. No new classes. No creative educational solutions to help the students be the best that they can be!

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liberator

Sep-10-13 6:19 PM

Haters gonna hate...

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DKexpat

Sep-10-13 9:10 AM

From “the shoe is on the other foot” department:

In the 60s and 70s it was “Why do you want to become a teacher? Come work with me in the steel plant and you’ll make more money!” There was a time that was true.

In the 60s and 70s, a 22-year-old fresh out of college could earn all of $5,000/year as a teacher ($5,500 in affluent districts) - - while his high school classmates, already at the steel plan with their dads, uncles and cousins, had spent the past four year making $20,000/year.

So the new teacher was already $80k behind his/her classmates + the cost of schooling. The next year, and the year after that, the gap would continue to widen.

So I have less of an issue with wages after, say, 30 years of teaching than I do with tenure, where “pay for performance” became “job for life” and the pitchforks come out whenever someone suggests a longer school year that would benefit children.

It’s easy to become a teacher, but much hard harder to become a good teacher...

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