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Finding reason in abortion debate

September 14, 2013

Americans are obviously conflicted on the abortion issue. Polls shift frequently and many, if not most Americans, are both pro-life and pro-choic....

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Sep-20-13 10:42 PM

By the comments, most people are locked into their positions. I would have loved to have been challenged in a reasonable way on any part of the essay. But, obviously, it won't happen. Sad.

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Sep-15-13 10:00 PM

Judeye, I agree with your last post. As I mentioned to Marcia, in effect, this bitter disagreement has been going on for years- especially since Roe v Wade. People are so fixed in their beliefs. That's why I believe that it will take a young educated generation to sort all this out. It's become almost like a religious war where reason is tossed out the window.

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Sep-15-13 9:52 PM

Marcia, I agree with everything that you said but there are also people on the 'pro choice' side that are unreasonable. For example, the implicit and explicit remarks that are made about the developing human being not really being a human being until certain criteria are met. I mean what else could it be? At the end of nine months is a cellphone born or a salamander? I also know that if either side 'gives in' on any point made by the other side, that other side will jump all over it and claim some sort of 'victory'. We are indeed all shallow people if we let rhetoric trump the truth on both sides. Having said that, I really do understand the battle. It's become almost like a religious fight. 'My religion is better than your religion.' I hope the next generation can talk to each other without pontificating.

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Sep-15-13 7:58 AM

JoeW.."I have no problems with women going to a planned parenthood clinic."

Are you then fighting against many in the GOP who want to defund PP, which by the way 97% of their services are women's health, including contraceptives, not abortion.

The dr in Philly was a monster. Ban abortions and we will all return to monsters like him in every city and every back alley. I know. I lived when abortions were 'illegal'. It did not stop only prevented safe ones.

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Sep-14-13 10:14 PM

Steiner, there's science and fact as to why the gals lag behind? Really? I would guess that almost no real, reputable scientist would concur. And again with the white men and science nonsense! Again your statement has zero historical context!

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Sep-14-13 9:09 PM

Marcia, I am primarily directing this essay to the younger educated population. I think they are willing to think reasonably and not dogmatically like what I call the 'Old Guard' on both sides. Some may call this article 'naively idealistic' but, as I say, it's not for the 'Old Guard'. There is truth on both sides. Lawrence Tribe aptly named his book, 'The Clash of Absolutes'. I think he's right. Therefore, I think we need to come to grips with the truth on both sides and negotiate our way to a more reasoned approach. As I've said, at this point in time our hope lies with the younger educated generation.

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Sep-14-13 8:18 PM

Oh please Marcia stop with the twisting and spinning already. Who wants to ban birth control? Don't you think there should be strict rules governing abortion clinics after what that butcher did in Philly?? I have no problems with women going to a planned parenthood clinic. The girls in my family however got all the planning assistance they needed from my Mom. RU 486 is nothing more than a substitute for responsibility and self control. I think another reason you on the radical left believe in abortion so much is that women during gestation emit 27% more carbon dioxide!

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Sep-14-13 7:00 PM

As admirable a statement, this will never happen because most of the anti-abortion faction refuse to allow any compromise whatsoever. Not even if the women would die if the birth continues. You cannot compromise with people like that. They also want to ban birth control which would lessen the need for abortions. Again, how do you compromise with someone like that? Legal abortion is the law of the land, and yet legislatures around the country are doing everything they can to enforce mandatory childbirth. An example is the need for a doctor to be present when a woman takes RU-486, or the unnecessary rules for abortion clinics. And the anti-abortion crew are such loving people that the accost and malign women going to Planned Parenthood clinics for medical appointments. It would be nice, but how do you compromise with these types?

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Sep-14-13 11:28 AM

The SC has ruled on many controversial cases, including making affirmative action LEGAL. This ruling allowed (and encouraged thru govt subsidized incentives) employers to give less qualified black applicants preference as a means to balance the "racially unequal employment" scale.

This policy was adopted OVER 50 YEARS AGO! As suggested in the abortion debate, should we still try to "find reason to move forward", despite the ruling (and govt subsidized monetary incentives) clearly promotes reverse discrimination?

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Sep-14-13 10:35 AM

hey cronig, your reply about not having certain body parts might explain why women lag in science and business. fact gals and libs. from TV and books. You dont have all the male parts, especially the testosterone, the great driver, the fire spoken of in the bible, the will by ignatious loyola and the jesuits. . All the gals got are repro parts and a minute fraction of testosterone. testosterone is the great maker in the world. thats why you lib gals seem so sure inspite of being wrong. You cant possibly undestand anything like a guy. Cronig said so and history shows this to be true. guys can as testosterone is the inuitiator, the gals the ones initiated so in a sense guys are superior in mind to the gals. history shows this to be true and cronig confirms it.

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Sep-14-13 10:29 AM

hey captain, you missed that too ! Abortion legal only by court decision. Why not put it up for a vote ? Does that frighten you ? Supreme court said sterilizatioins were legal too, Buck vs bell.I can see it now, captain saying sterilize them its legal, we got a consensus. . You libs cherry pick all the time. You need other people money for all your ideas. proves what i have said over and over . Libs are mentally deficient people, cunning but not smart. thats why they have a continual need for other peoples money. Tax revenue.cronig is great on rhetoric, but thats about it.

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Sep-14-13 10:23 AM

unlearned cronig is at it again. i am not a muslim, gal etc so i have no idea of anything. wow, thats clueless . Hey cronig, all the great science that benefited women and all the rest invented by white males like myself. How do we know so much being so clueless as you say ? clueless cronig you miss again and again with all your rhetorical cracks why choice is only for the gals and not for the rest of us, vouchers for schools.did you see this cronig ? pro death ? huh ? a criminal commits a crime worthy of the death penalty. No way says the lbs he could be innocent. What exactly did the unborn do to be judged for death ? disagree with a liberal. all you libs are the clueless ones. from the economy to iraq , education, science and abortion. Cluelss posts every day from clueless people.

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Sep-14-13 9:55 AM

Even if a woman is pro-life, that's her choice, therefore, she IS pro-choice. Like it or not, the SC ruled 40 YEARS AGO that abortion is legal, so what's the point of this letter?

This article reminds me of that rabble-rouser Kershnar.

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Sep-14-13 9:44 AM

Steinerdzzz -- what is quite typical of you and totally discrediting of almost any opinion you have, is that you gabber about things of which you have no idea, no clue, no experience.

You talk about knowing women, their challenges, their beliefs, their thoughts, their bodies, etc, when the truth is you have neither a uterus, a vagina, a cervix, ovaries, or breasts. You've never had a menstrual cycle, you never had a PAP smear, you've never had a mammogram, never inserted a tampon, etc...and yet, you pontificate all about those "gals".

Since you "know", pray tell me what is it like to be an African-American? Or a Latino? A jew? An Asian-American? How about a Muslim?

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Sep-14-13 9:41 AM

Let's have free everything. We wouldn't want you to have to work. Keep dumping out those babies. Give them the good life....welfare. It's just like living on the best side of life. Nothing but the best. Top shelf. Nothing like low income housing and free everything.

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Sep-14-13 9:33 AM

Those who claim to be pro-life usually are not. In fact, they are anti-life, anti-child after conception. In the same breath, they are for the death penalty, they are war-hawkish, they want health care for children, WIC, food stamps, free school lunches, school taxes, Head Start and all sorts of programs directly focused on children to be cut, eliminated or sharply curtailed.

No, they are not pro-life at all.

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Sep-14-13 8:06 AM

Hey conrad, of course there is a person who can comprehend the reason behind every abortion ! Its a liberal. Say choice and thats the end of the matter. Funny how that logic is only for killing the unborn and not schools . Liberals again. Conscious elusive ? liberals again and their dumbwin (darwin).Will of the people the libs say. Hmmm, it was a court decision, not popular vote that did it. the libs goofed mentally again , as usual. Now the gals themselves say abortion is a needed health care measure. That implies they will get sick if they cant have any. Abortion mishaps are not in the top 10 causes of death so i cant figure that out.but anecdotal evidence supports them. Hollywood gals complain of lack of roles for older gals ! they cant have an abortion so the employers know those gals are health risks. better hire the 20 year old gals ! Its safer ! easier on the eyes too ! The only choice the libs ever promote,seen thru liberal eyes.

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