Sign In | Create an Account | Welcome, . My Account | Logout | Subscribe | Submit News | Extras | All Access e-Edition | Home RSS
 
 
 

The pros, cons of welfare system

September 23, 2013

It would seem that everyone — or at least those paying taxes — wants serious reforms of our welfare system. In fact, it would seem a large percentage of taxpayers would like to just end it completely....

« Back to Article

 
 
sort: oldest | newest

Comments

(82)

localresident

Sep-28-13 10:55 PM

Truth, if you replace "Republicans" with "political extremes" in your second-to-last post, I'd agree with you wholeheartedly. Because of those two factions, the vast majority of accomplishment takes exponentially longer to achieve, and usually involves completely unrelated line items in newly-passed laws. You know, the totally ridiculous stuff that no sane voter would approve of whatsoever. Wasting money is completely inexcusable, and when the pols do it just to placate a few congresspeople so they'll vote to pass a measure that makes sense, that is the greatest injustice to the American public.

1 Agrees | 0 Disagrees | Report Abuse »

American

Sep-26-13 4:20 PM

Wonder where falsehoodteller gets his/her information from? I bet it must come from that known teller of nothing but truth MSNBC.( sorry I almost gagged saying that about msnbc) Yes that bastion of lefthand left wing non truths has to be where it comes from.

2 Agrees | 0 Disagrees | Report Abuse »

joew

Sep-26-13 3:57 PM

Once again "truthteller"(?)states that SNAP is being taken away from the neediest which of course is not true. Darned if I can find that in the bill????????? Oh and Fox news is influencing me?(us) In reality no one source of news has my ear or eye. I watch them all "truthteller". Care to share with us your source(s)?

1 Agrees | 0 Disagrees | Report Abuse »

DKexpat

Sep-26-13 8:23 AM

Oh, this’ll disappoint you: Because I was ahead on credits my senior year of college, I student-taught HS my last semester and graduated with Secondary Ed teaching certification along with my bachelor’s. And in grad school I “subbed” both for extra money and the fun of it. Imagine that…

Don’t keep harping on what teachers who retired ‘n’ years ago get – look at what the 2011 retirees are getting. (You keep avoiding that.) You also keeping insisting on apples:oranges comparisons. But even at the “just” $5k/month” figure you tossed out, beginning at age 57 and living 23 years – that’s $1,380,000. Again, the $1M+ annuity a non-pension person would need.

Don’t cry for me, Argentina…

2 Agrees | 0 Disagrees | Report Abuse »

Truthteller

Sep-26-13 6:31 AM

Sure, let's take a look at Williamsville, Amherst, Orchard Park, Greece. Districts wealthier than anywhere in Chautauqua County, your baseline for all your statistics. So much for apples to apples.

0 Agrees | 3 Disagrees | Report Abuse »

Truthteller

Sep-26-13 6:18 AM

As long as Republicans in Congress are vicious, and as long as Fox news and the Tea Party websites keep manipulating you folks, I will persist in throwing common sense and reason at you. Obviously, you refuse to look at it, so we are at a standstill. For instance, refusing to see how the SNAP vote takes away from the neediest, or downright not caring, makes you oblivious, clueless, and a voter who will keep this country in decline. And ranting about teachers, who do NOT have it made, while the real villains of this country have your dangerous vote and undying affection is misguided. When you're challenged with evidence, you label it "ranting." I've seen that manipulative name-calling on the right. Fine, go for it. It's our vote that matters. I just hope the tide swings back away from this Reaganesque mess the right has created.

0 Agrees | 3 Disagrees | Report Abuse »

joew

Sep-25-13 6:50 PM

Yes truthteller(?) I did and they are called SEC filings. Pretty sure you used the yahoo finance site since all the companies you cited were listed just as you posted! GE for example paid just over 1 BILLION in taxes according to the SEC! I have read HR 3102 and NOWHERE is there ANY provision to take money from poor people. Stop with the BS and scare tactics please. Read the executive summary of bill! The bill pretty much reinstates what Obama's executive order eliminated that was originally signed into law by President Clinton.

2 Agrees | 1 Disagrees | Report Abuse »

DKexpat

Sep-25-13 6:00 PM

Truthseeker, you’re gettin’ all worked up – can’t image you ever having the patience or demeanor to be a teacher...sure wouldn’t want your rants around my kids.

Expand your mind and look at seethrough for other WNY districts, not just Dunkirk. Geeeez, some people...

I’ve also scheduled your remedial reading program – guess you missed the part where I said I don’t begrudge teachers their salaries. And, once again, you ignored the apples:apples comparison for total compensation.

Tenure protects bad teachers and others with near-guaranteed jobs. Sadly, too many just mark time and put in their time. Nepotism? Gasp! Come join the real world!

How many would trade that job protection for more money? Not too many, I’d wager. And keep your tired argument about “they work on their vacations.” What white-collar person doesn’t these days? The rest of us just don’t have all that PTO...

Take YOUR ignorant self back to school, will ya?

2 Agrees | 1 Disagrees | Report Abuse »

Truthteller

Sep-25-13 5:29 PM

From See Through: Dunkirk City Schools, retired teachers. DK says they make 5K a month. That's $60,000 a year. As per See Through--4 teachers and 3 administrators make that much. Below them is a long, long line of retirees making less than 5K. Hardly trustworthy info DK is shoving down your throats.

0 Agrees | 3 Disagrees | Report Abuse »

Truthteller

Sep-25-13 5:19 PM

Ignorance=thinking teachers don't work in the summer. 42 days, huh? It's at least some compensation for not paying people with master's degrees what they'd be earning as chemists rather than chemistry teachers. So why aren't they chemists instead? It's called passion for teaching kids. None of you think that should be compensated reasonably. And none of you could do it either.

0 Agrees | 3 Disagrees | Report Abuse »

Truthteller

Sep-25-13 5:16 PM

By the way, teachers are taxpayers. Tenure is protection from nepotism. You still get fired with tenure; watch the news. It happens surprisingly often and it has happened locally.

0 Agrees | 3 Disagrees | Report Abuse »

Truthteller

Sep-25-13 5:15 PM

DK, your ignorance is oozing out of every pore. Teachers don't prove their worth every year? That comment alone nails you for your ignorance. Again--NYSUT APPR. Yearly, brutal. Look it up and then explain how you could perform up to something like that. Nobody's avoiding your trumped-up manufactured right-wing statistics. They're just plain wrong. See Through can prove that because that shows what retired teachers ACTUALLY have to live on. I invite all posters here to look up all the retired teachers they know and see how wrong DK is. His figures are NOT the norm. Plus, haven't any of you heard that tiers 5 & 6 are in place? Older retirement age, bigger pension contributions. Problem solved. Except that you frothy-mouthed righties keep allowing your band of idiot Republican brethren to manipulate you into blaming teachers rather than the true villains, like GM and all those other freeloading companies. And yes, even you, DK, because you are WAY ahead in income of my non-profit wag

0 Agrees | 3 Disagrees | Report Abuse »

DKexpat

Sep-25-13 4:26 PM

Truthseeker, you miss point after point after point. Don’t go cryin’ the blues because someone retires early, doesn’t put in the time, and doesn’t collect the full $82k. In fact, I looked a several WNY school districts at seethrough – a number have pensions HIGHER than what I’d stated.

You keep avoiding the apples:apples TOTAL compensation comparison – don’t just focus on base pay. And I am lovin’ the good life – I earn considerably more than any teacher (or superintendent, for that matter) in Chau Cty, but the trade-off is no pension, more hours/week, far less vacation, no guaranteed job, etc.

Yes, tenure, with few exceptions, is a job for life. I guess you’re union – “every line of work should have that.” Life’s different, ain’t it, when you don’t need to prove your worth every year? And the 30 days PTO + 12 sick days also speak to a union job.

“...offer more than you've minimized it...” – - Just curious, fellow readers, how many of you have 42 days/year of PTO?

2 Agrees | 0 Disagrees | Report Abuse »

Truthteller

Sep-25-13 3:21 PM

So the information about pensions on See Through NY is wrong, DK? Because if you do what I suggested and look people up, you will find the picture you portray quite wrong. Real retired teachers are neither rolling in it nor eating apples.

0 Agrees | 3 Disagrees | Report Abuse »

Truthteller

Sep-25-13 3:20 PM

Human psychology--We tend to follow the path of least resistance. Since you all insist teaching is the easiest and most lucrative career, it is only natural that you ALL would have chosen it. DK, Darkstar, Joew--anyone want to explain why you're not living this good life? Page and paragraph, please...

0 Agrees | 3 Disagrees | Report Abuse »

Truthteller

Sep-25-13 3:18 PM

DK--most non-profit companies and organizations offer more than you've minimized it to. Mine, for instance, offers 30 vacation days plus one sick day a month. And tenure is not a "job for life." Don't you read the newspaper? Tenure is protection from nepotism. Every line of work should have that. FYI--Teacher evaluations are detailed and absurd. Look up NYSUT APPR rubric. Could you perform all this?

0 Agrees | 3 Disagrees | Report Abuse »

Truthteller

Sep-25-13 3:16 PM

Joew--It's HR 3102, Republican backed reduction in SNAP. Vote217-210. There's no "page and paragraph." It's legis;ation. As for SEC--now YOU need to cite "page and paragraph." Where did you find information that refutes the companies I listed? Those companies I listed are on numerous websites. But you are not only wrong; you are also a mindreader. What exactly was my "wrong" website? Page and paragraph, please.

0 Agrees | 3 Disagrees | Report Abuse »

joew

Sep-25-13 1:06 PM

Sorry "truthteller" but you are not telling the truth about corporations that you say are paying "zero taxes"! The web site you used is not that of the SEC which has the actual numbers. I ask again to show me/us where food/SNAP will be taken from poor people? Surely you can be page and paragraph specific right? The scare tactics don't work with some of us that can read! Page and paragraph please?

2 Agrees | 0 Disagrees | Report Abuse »

DKexpat

Sep-25-13 11:44 AM

I don’t begrudge teachers their salaries. But you need to make an apples:apples comparison beyond just base salary, for example:

1. Fewer than 1 in 4 in the private sector have a pension. Fact: The average NYSTRS pension of someone who retired in 2011 at age 57 (after 35 years) is $82,241. Let’s say s/he lives to age 80 – that’s $1,891,543 (not counting COLAs).

2. Private-sctor PTO = 2-3 weeks/yr –including vaca AND sick time. How many MONTHS does a teacher get?

3. Private sector: no contract with guaranteed annual raises; a teacher does. (Heck, even federal employees went 3 years without raises.)

4. Private sector: I have annual evaluations at a company that regularly fires its “bottom 10%;" a teacher has tenure and, with few exceptions, a job for life. What value (and peace of mind) do you place on that? Would teachers forego tenure in exchange for more money? I doubt it.

Add it all up...

3 Agrees | 0 Disagrees | Report Abuse »

American

Sep-25-13 11:25 AM

And that does not take into account the benefits like medical or retirement pensions.

3 Agrees | 0 Disagrees | Report Abuse »

American

Sep-25-13 11:24 AM

I suppose this is a TEA party based web site also.

3 Agrees | 0 Disagrees | Report Abuse »

American

Sep-25-13 11:23 AM

"High school teachers at both private and public schools in the state of New York earned a mean annual wage of $68,010 as of May 2009, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, making it the top-paying state for high school teachers in the country. In comparison, the average annual salary for all high school teachers in the U.S. was $55,150, of which the bottom 10 percent earned $34,600 and the top ten percent earned $82,000""The BLS stated that middle school teachers in New York earned a mean annual salary of $67,580 as of May 2009, making it the second top-paying state for middle school teachers in the United States.""

According to the BLS, New York was the fourth highest-paying state in the country for elementary school teachers as of May 2009, with an average annual salary of $65,820, above the national average of $53,150" And remember this was 4 years ago so it is even more now. om/info_7914855_average-salary-new-york-teachers.html

3 Agrees | 0 Disagrees | Report Abuse »

DKexpat

Sep-25-13 11:17 AM

“35 years? Hardly anyone retires with that many years in.”

Truthseeker, you mean to say people don’t spend 35 years in the workforce? If you count past college graduation at 22, that’s only up to age 57!

Don’t you know people in the private sector spend MORE than that in the workforce? Or do you mean we should all retire on taxpayer-funded pensions at 57?

4 Agrees | 0 Disagrees | Report Abuse »

stangv8

Sep-25-13 9:59 AM

Thing is, there are jobs available in this country but nobody wants to move where they’re at. We all want the jobs to come to us instead of us going to where the jobs are. Our forefathers moved to where the work was. That’s how this great country was settled. Just yesterday I was on the phone with a co-worker who is on temporary duty at Minot AFB, North Dakota. He told me that MacDonald’s there is offering sign on bonuses of $500 and starting pay of $10-15 per hour. He said the same with Lowes, Home Depot, Wall-Mart, and other retailers; sign on bonuses and higher pay. Businesses can’t find employees as the young people are out in the oil fields bringing in BIG MONEY. You want a good job? Do what your forefathers did. Get off your backside and move to where the jobs are instead of boohooing about no jobs in Western NY.

5 Agrees | 0 Disagrees | Report Abuse »

PhilJulian

Sep-25-13 9:10 AM

JUDEYE - I will agree with you that this county is seriously lacking in job opportunities. You might not want to hear this but the lack of jobs is directly related to excessive taxation. I made my living in the private sector and I can tell you that sensitivity to high taxes is a major factor. That's why so many of our employers have applied for assessment reductions. If I were starting a new company there is no way that I would even consider Chautauqua County. At the root of the problem is too much government. 27 towns, 15 villages, 2 cities and 18 school districts all to serve a population of 133,000, the size of a small city! If you really want to attract investment in job producing business, join the fight to reduce the size and cost of government. Poverty is not the cause of our problem - it is the result of our problem. Wealthy CEO'S are not the cause of our problem - I wish we had more of them. Overly generous welfare costs certainly contribute to our desperate situation.

5 Agrees | 0 Disagrees | Report Abuse »

Showing 25 of 82 comments Show More Comments
 
 

Post a Comment

You must first login before you can comment.

*Your email address:
*Password:
Remember my email address.
or
 
 

 

I am looking for:
in:
News, Blogs & Events Web